Post by thedogspollocks on Feb 20, 2023 6:09:52 GMT
Hi guys.
Just a discussion point really.
A while back, there seems to have been an idea for ratings where 83 meant a player was "world class".
79 was a Premier League regular etc.
Safe to say, this is no longer applicable, as the average ratings seems to sit higher than the above would suggest. In any case, this doesn't matter, provided everything is adjusted relative to the new norm.
I remember when I was here a year or so ago, and Dzeko got a move, which bumped him to 85; two rungs above world-class.
If I'm not mistaken, Haaland currently sits at 86. Fine.
17 year old Mathys Tel sits at 79. Is he a regular.... no. His rating, according to the above, should be down, arguably 2 points, in the old system. Perhaps in the current system also.
I think one mistake being made when voting for player adjustments is that people are comparing their players to others in the system which need adjusting downwards. They're cherry-picking examples that favour their opinions regarding a player, which we know to be highly subjective.
There's something to be said for entirely ignoring transfers as a ratings booster. Furthermore, that player quality isn't necessarily poor when playing in a poor system under a woeful manager. Nor is it several rungs above world class when enjoying a good period of solid performances.
Pick De Bruyne. Arguably one of the worlds best players right now, certainly in the top 5. Or is he? Even this is likely to be disputed. Personally, I think he's in the top 3, and on a good day, number 1 (as much as it pains me to say it).
Would it not be better to isolate the best player(s), give them an agreed upon rating, and draw down from that. Doesn't matter if his rating is 90, providing all other players are adjusted relative to this. I mean, it would be silly, but you get my point.
Adjusting the database, with the number of players that it has, is likely a near full-time job. A lag is to be expected, but we shouldn't be chasing moving players up all the time, using examples, in a system that has a ratings downgrade delay. There are some bonkers players that are ancient with criminally high ratings. Using their example to justify bumping people up, for example, just means everyone is a worldy.
There seems to be a bit too much scope for opinion in the ratings system at present. Solid parameters could be set that define what certain things mean, e.g. "regular" starts 80% of games in the last year. Alternatively, you can pick Messi at his peak, something we all know and understand... give that Messi of the past an imaginary rating... and trickle down. Start with the big hitters that people know most about, and go from there. It would take time but there would be some degree of logic and consistency.
If prime Messi is 87, are the current best players in the world 87 also? Or 86?
Ratings are a key part of the game, thought it would be interesting to hear what others thought on the matter.
EDIT:
Can someone provide me with ratings for the following players, just so I can try something out?
De Bruyne
Salah
Kane
Van Dijk
Bernardo Silva
Rodri
Duben Dias
Son
Sterling
N'Kante
Havertz
Luis Diaz
Jorginho
Foden
It doesn't have to be all of them, just what you know off of the top of your head.
Just a discussion point really.
A while back, there seems to have been an idea for ratings where 83 meant a player was "world class".
79 was a Premier League regular etc.
Safe to say, this is no longer applicable, as the average ratings seems to sit higher than the above would suggest. In any case, this doesn't matter, provided everything is adjusted relative to the new norm.
I remember when I was here a year or so ago, and Dzeko got a move, which bumped him to 85; two rungs above world-class.
If I'm not mistaken, Haaland currently sits at 86. Fine.
17 year old Mathys Tel sits at 79. Is he a regular.... no. His rating, according to the above, should be down, arguably 2 points, in the old system. Perhaps in the current system also.
I think one mistake being made when voting for player adjustments is that people are comparing their players to others in the system which need adjusting downwards. They're cherry-picking examples that favour their opinions regarding a player, which we know to be highly subjective.
There's something to be said for entirely ignoring transfers as a ratings booster. Furthermore, that player quality isn't necessarily poor when playing in a poor system under a woeful manager. Nor is it several rungs above world class when enjoying a good period of solid performances.
Pick De Bruyne. Arguably one of the worlds best players right now, certainly in the top 5. Or is he? Even this is likely to be disputed. Personally, I think he's in the top 3, and on a good day, number 1 (as much as it pains me to say it).
Would it not be better to isolate the best player(s), give them an agreed upon rating, and draw down from that. Doesn't matter if his rating is 90, providing all other players are adjusted relative to this. I mean, it would be silly, but you get my point.
Adjusting the database, with the number of players that it has, is likely a near full-time job. A lag is to be expected, but we shouldn't be chasing moving players up all the time, using examples, in a system that has a ratings downgrade delay. There are some bonkers players that are ancient with criminally high ratings. Using their example to justify bumping people up, for example, just means everyone is a worldy.
There seems to be a bit too much scope for opinion in the ratings system at present. Solid parameters could be set that define what certain things mean, e.g. "regular" starts 80% of games in the last year. Alternatively, you can pick Messi at his peak, something we all know and understand... give that Messi of the past an imaginary rating... and trickle down. Start with the big hitters that people know most about, and go from there. It would take time but there would be some degree of logic and consistency.
If prime Messi is 87, are the current best players in the world 87 also? Or 86?
Ratings are a key part of the game, thought it would be interesting to hear what others thought on the matter.
EDIT:
Can someone provide me with ratings for the following players, just so I can try something out?
De Bruyne
Salah
Kane
Van Dijk
Bernardo Silva
Rodri
Duben Dias
Son
Sterling
N'Kante
Havertz
Luis Diaz
Jorginho
Foden
It doesn't have to be all of them, just what you know off of the top of your head.